Friday came and went. President Obama did as he was scheduled to do, chairing a session of the United Nations Security Council in a meeting directed at nuclear weapons non-proliferation.
This should have silenced some of the cranks, crackpots, crank scientists and hoaxters who had “warned” us that Obama was going to use that opportunity to take over the world and order people to get inoculated against influenza — with some unstated fears that those inoculations would be more dangerous than the flu itself, or turn us all into Volvo-driving, chablis-loving, union-belonging, line-dancing Democrats, or something like that.
:::Sigh:::
No. Never such luck.
At the post where I debunked the claim that WHO is planning to take over the world with inoculations at the point of a gun, instead of with Auric Goldfinger, SMERSH, KAOS, or Lex Luther, a guy named Simon McDermott complains I don’t give him enough credence. His letter doesn’t help.
Look: The World Health Organization is a group of distinguished medical care specialists, public health specialists, and policy wonks, most of whom are too nerdy to want to hold great power — heading up WHO is a stepping stone to no great governmental power position anyone has ever found, least of all at the United Nations, which has no army, no troops of its own of any sort, and advises nations on bettering health care.
The claim that WHO is plotting to take over the world is not just moonbat-shagging silly, it’s completely insane. It makes no sense on any level, nor is there any evidence to corroborate the claims. Jane Burgermeister’s website notwithstanding, I have my doubts that she could demonstrate mental competence to enlist as a private in the Russian armed forces.
Moreover, the world faces a crisis in influenza. With luck and a lot of hard work, we can avoid a spread of a killer flu virus that might make Zero Population Growth look optimistic. We don’t need hoaxsters, pranksters and fools claiming that influenza is all a great hoax.
Simon said:
I am a freelance writer and have heavily researched the ‘well known’ and ‘established facts’ written in my article that I posted in my previous comment.
The facts are that the H1N1 vaccine has not been safely tested. It takes years to accurately test and research the effects of a new vaccine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html
I have posted a link above to the Mail Online a highly respected national newspaper here in Britain.
The article says that health officials say the vaccine has been thoroughly tested. No one in the article offers any credible denial of that fact. The headlines feature an earlier poll of general practitioners alleging that they said the vaccine had not been tested well enough.
Simon: An out-of-date, nonscientific poll of GPs in Britain who were underinformed, is not science.
Nor is your reading that story doing “heavy research.” Googling is not generally considered serious research.
‘First, you exaggerate. Second, that outbreak and the aftereffects are very much on the minds of health officials. Guillan Barre was never linked to the vaccine, by the way. Get some facts, will you?’
This is established fact; although experts now believe that it will be more like one in one million that will contract GBS rather than one in ten thousand.
No, a badly researched, poorly produced story on a local CBS affiliate, migrated to YouTube, does not make something “established fact.”
GBS is rare, but occurs all the time. We don’t know the cause, and no one has been able to pin any vaccine as a cause of GBS. After several million people were vaccinated, a few fell ill from GBS. No research has ever been able to establish any vaccine as a cause of GBS, however — it may be that those people would have fallen ill with GBS whether they got any vaccine or not. See the CDC’s information page on GBS:
What causes GBS?
It is thought that GBS may be triggered by an infection. The infection that most commonly precedes GBS is caused by a bacterium called Campylobacter jejuni. Other respiratory or intestinal illnesses and other triggers may also precede an episode of GBS. In 1976, vaccination with the swine flu vaccine was associated with getting GBS. Several studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines since 1976 were associated with GBS. Only one of the studies showed an association. That study suggested that one person out of 1 million vaccinated persons may be at risk of GBS associated with the vaccine.
We’ve had that many kids die of swine flu already this year, in Dallas and Tarrant counties in Texas. Right now, GBS from all causes is less prevalent than deaths from swine flu.
Also here is a list of dangerous substances that are in other vaccines; we can also expect similar material to be in the swine flu vaccine.
Did you know that potatoes contain carcinogens? Are you aware that the essential nutrient, selenium, is also carcinogenic? Did you know that an excess of salt can kill a person? Are you aware that plain old tap water can be deadly, in several ways?
Gosh, a list of “dangerous substances.” Did you look at the list? Did you see that the “dangerous substances” include eggs and yeast? Are you aware that almost every loaf of bread in America contains more eggs and yeast than three years’ worth of all vaccines for a person?
You’re being irresponsible to the point of recklessness. Yes, people with allergies to eggs should avoid flu vaccines. No, that doesn’t mean the vaccines are inherently dangerous, that they vaccines don’t work, nor does it mean eggs are inherently dangerous.
It means people who are allergic to eggs should avoid flu vaccines (vaccines are grown in eggs, and some egg proteins remain in influenza vaccines).
Almost all substances are dangerous, when out of place, or in the wrong quantities. You could note that fact without alarmism and without hysterics. Dangerous things are all around us. Flu vaccines fall near the bottom of the danger scales, but near the top of the life-saving scale.
You’re aware that we annually lose around 30,000 people to the pedestrian, seasonal flu? How many thousands of times greater is the risk of death to flu than death by vaccine?
Research has shown that there are plenty of natural preventative actions that can be taken to protect against catching flu viruses. These are a healthy organic diet, vitamins; such as vitamin D3, regular exercise and certain herbs – all of these are known to boost and strengthen the immune system.
Staying healthy is always a good idea. H1N1, however, attacks healthy kids. It’s not a question of natural prevention. Some people have never been exposed to this particular strain or its cousins, and they have no natural immunity to it. When it strikes, it strikes quickly. Most of the deaths in the U.S. from H1N1 are to young people who have taken your natural preventive actions. Vitamins and organic diets don’t work.
In fact, that’s dangerous advice right there. A medical professional could be subject to malpractice for the advice you just issued. Kids, Simon is an amateur — don’t try that at home.
I used to regularly take the seasonal flu vaccine before finding out the dangers of vaccines in general; on the two occasions that I did take it I ended up getting flu shortly after taking the vaccine. Since then I have not taken it and decided to go down the alternative route, which has served me very well as I have not had so much as a cold in over three years.
As people grow older they have fewer colds — you never get the same cold virus twice. When you’re over 30 or 40, you’ve been exposed to most of the variations on cold viruses. Your reduction in colds is because you’re older, not because you’re healthier.
Ironically, that’s exactly what you argue against. You’re more resistant to colds because you’ve been “vaccinated” against them. The vaccination was natural, by catching the viruses and developing immunity. For flu, we have to have flu shots for the greatest safety.
Don’t argue against flu vaccines by telling us how effectively the natural method of vaccination has protected you from colds, okay? You look like an idiot when you do that, suggesting you really don’t understand viruses, how they are passed, nor how human immunity occurs.
Since you seem so eager to poison your body with a substance which is clearly more dangerous than swine flu itself, then who am I to stand in your way.
That’s just a crass, cold and craven lie. There is not even an insane argument to be made that flu vaccines this year are more dangerous than the flu itself. That’s crazy talk, terrorist talk. What do you have against old people that you want to see thousands of them die from the flu? Since the “death panels” claim turned out to be bogus, you decided to go on a one-man campaign to encourage death among the elderly and ill?
Since you are so eager to poison minds with completely bogus attacks on science, let me urge you to volunteer to forego all flu vaccines, but be exposed to the viruses, for the sake of research. That way the rest of us could benefit from your bizarre animus to life.
I am sorry to hear that there have been a couple of deaths where you live due to swine flu, but there are much safer alternative and natural preventative actions that can be taken. A healthy nutritionally rich diet should be first on the list before we even consider vaccines, of which there is a huge amount of evidence calling into question, their overall safety and effectiveness when fighting disease.
Call the CDC. Volunteer for flu exposure now, before the rush. You’re not sure that the vaccines are safe, but you argue that the flu IS safe? Let’s see you put your life where your mouth is.
I don’t think you’re that big a fool. Your that whopping dishonest, but not so big a fool.
The problem is that the majority of western doctors are taught absolute fallacies at medical school and in some cases have been brought up to become nothing more than glorified pill prescribers.
The human immune is an extremely powerful and efficient tool when it comes to fighting disease. The reason that it is susceptible to diseases like swine flu at all is because our diets are so nutritionally poor. In many cases this is due to processed foods (filled with additives and preservatives) and poisons such as aspartame in many of our soft drinks.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026168.html
I have posted a link above to a site that lists natural preventives and explains that viruses such as swine flu cannot be contracted by a healthy well maintained immune system.
Don’t look now, but you’re obviously suffering a dementia produced by lack of immunity.
In your case, that dementia could be cured with a trip to a library.
What you wrote in that last excerpt is pure, unadulterated bullshit.
Thank you, but we’ve already heard the “smart pills” joke.
I am not a ‘crack pot’ and neither are others who show a distinct lack of trust in bodies like the WHO and companies such as Baxter, because history has taught us that they have seriously let us down in the past.
You mean, you advocate crackpot ideas for noble reasons? Alas, that leaves you in the category of crackpot. Anyone who thinks killer flu is safer than vaccines is a crackpot, or an idiot, or an agent of evil. I’m assuming you’re not an idiot, and not an agent of evil. Can you convince me otherwise?
If after examining the evidence that I have provided you still believe that the vaccine is safe, then be my guest, take it, it is your right to choose, but please do not belittle with your derogatory use of humour those who do not!
The reason I talk about this information is because I want people to be safe, and nobody wants a repeat of the 1976 debacle.
Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Shut up. Nobody wants a repeat of the 1918 debacle, either — and you should be ashamed of campaigning for it as you are.
If we all lived clean and healthy natural lives then there would be no need for vaccines at all.
There you go with that crackpot stuff again. If you think that chicken pox and shingles would disappear without vaccines, you’re a fool. If you fail to understand that polio can’t be beaten without vaccines, you’re a greater fool.
If you claim that people could beat chicken pox, smallpox, measles and polio without vaccines, you’re a dangerous tool of crackpot evil.
Maybe it is our social system that needs a rethink, because if you examine Amazonian tribal communities, who have had little to no contact with the outside world, you find a distinct lack of disease in these societies.
There’s a whopper I’d like to see some serious studies on.
That testifies to a lack of virus transmission, but you will also find a distinct surplus of diseases that diet can’t cure. Someday spend some time studying Huntington’s Disease, Huntington’s Chorea, and how the prevalence of the disease in one of those isolated Amazonian tribes contributed to the search for a cause. Of course, almost every member of that tribe had the disease. (It’s genetic, and no vaccine can prevent or cure — yet.) You’ll also find they die of bacterial diseases that modern medicine can treat — those physicians you mock.
Dirty living equals disease; an unclean polluted environment equals disease; the addition of chemicals to our food, drink and drinking water equals disease; when are we going to wake up and realise that the cause of disease is not some unknown, unfortunate ‘random factor’, but the way we live our lives.
Of course, clean living increases asthma. A lack of pollution tends to correlate with lack of civilization. The absence of chlorine in our drinking water contributes to cholera epidemics and typhoid, the lack of fluorine in our water means more dental caries and brain infections. Trace amounts of iodine in salt have all but eliminated goiter. When are you going to wake up and realize that some disease causes are well known, some diseases easily preventable, and life is complex and cannot be made perfectly safe with today’s technology, but was a minefield of deadly infections without today’s technology?
If we live our lives soaked in superstition and crank science, we haven’t even a prayer (full irony intended). You’re not advocating for better health. You’re ranting about stuff you don’t know about.
Although in the case of Baxter the cause of the so called ’swine flu virus’ may well have been them!
I think there’s a better case that you are the cause of swine flu than there is a case that any drug company manufactured the stuff. Among other clues you should look at is the prevalence of swine flu in swine populations around the world — today and historically. Influenza viruses tend to be species specific, and it’s actually quite rare for them to jump species. That’s why, when they jump, they can be so deadly.
But then, that’s what you’re campaigning for, right? You’d love to see a virus wipe out most people, especially those with scientific knowledge — right, Simon?
Ugh.
Get an education about flu and other viruses:
- Centers for Disease Control page on 2009-2010 flu viruses
- Tara Smith, at Aetiology, “Why I’ll be getting my kids their flu vaccines”; also “What does WHO’s pandemic scale mean? And why is anyone worried about this?”
- Public Health experts puzzle over why H1N1 is so much more deadly for kids
- A real physician explains why he got his flu shot
- revere at Effects Measure explains why one should always get a flu vaccine
Don’t let your friends go without this information, please:
Millard Fillmore's Bathtub 
Do you seriously believe that? When was the last time someone you knew die of scarlet fever, or an infection from a minor or major cut? Who do you know who died of smallpox? Can you name anyone you know who has caught polio in the past 40 years?
How often have you had typhoid? Cholera? Measles? Chicken Pox?
Listening the physicians, who are licensed and under penalty of tort and criminal law to get it right, makes a lot more sense than listening to people who claim they are “idiots.”
H1N1 kills healthy young kids. We are having peak flu incidence now — usually we don’t see these numbers until February.
Are you willing to subject your claims to testing and verification?
So far, without swine flu vaccine we’re approaching a couple thousand deaths in the U.S. So far, with the vaccine, there is not one flu death, there is no one serious vaccine reaction.
2,000 to zero.
And you wonder why I think the anti-vaxxers are cranks?
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Wow!! Thank you Simon! That was some very helpful facts and information about vaccines. I will have to admit that those around me that get the vaccines appears to get whatever it is the vaccine is to protect them from. My boss and secretary get the flu shot every year and every year they get the flu and still to this day try to get me to go with them. I always say, “What the hell for? I never get the flu so why would I put that crap in me that clearly does not protect you?”
My mom never would get the flu but the year she decided to get one is when she came down with a flu that almost killed her. The lady that used to watch my son during the day quit giving the flu shot to her kids after she followed her doctors advice to have them vaccinated. She said that ALL of them got the flu and a very bad case of it when others that were not vaccinated didn’t have it as bad as they.
I read a report that the numbers of death from the flu in the elderly have not gone done after being vaccinated. I think it would be great if a study was done on ALL the flu related deaths out there that would show the actual percentage of deaths that happened to those that were not vaccinated. I think that would say a lot where we can see with our own eyes as to how many flu related deaths happened to those that do not get vaccinated as well as not having pre-existing conditions. Do this with the vaccinated and honestly report the number of deaths from those that do not have pre-existing conditions.
We are only listening to a bunch of medical idiots that claims that all their crap improves health even though we have more illnesses today than ever. I am told that a cholesterol lowering drug has been proven to increase your chances of surviving a heart attack compared to those that do not take the med. The really result showed that out of all the participants, the group taking the meds had 2 fatalities compared to the placebo group that had 3 out of a bunch. They ran with that claiming that they have the proof that Lipitor saves lives…MY ASS!! I’m glad that Lipitor was being sued for their deceiving ads with Dr Jarvik.
Thanks again Simon! No vaccinations for my family. It’s funny how Dr Oz showed himself to be vaccinated even though it is mandatory for him, but in an interview said that his wife and 4 kids will not be vaccinated. I only wish the reporter would have caught that and said, “Why is that Dr Oz? You are sitting here telling that kids should be vaccinated but you are not putting your foot down with your own family???” Makes you wonder.
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Pat, in case you missed it I said the kid died specifically from H1N1. There were no other conditions he had. If he hadn’t contracted H1N1 he’d be out running around perfectly healthy. And he isn’t the only one to have died in my state from it.
They’re estimating that H1N1 will kill 36,000 people in this country. A tragic number and far too many. But it would be even more tragic and an even bigger number without the vaccine.
You and Simon can make whatever claims you want but you have no evidence, no proof and certainly nothing that meets a scientific burden. Unless you show the evidence, show the proof that meets a scientific burden then you have nothing other then stories, opinions and beliefs.
You want to prove one part of science wrong..i.e. the vaccine then you need to come up with science.
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But Simon, nothing here even attempts a rebuttal of what we’re talking about, and what the government said. You’ve given us a couple of videos that don’t address influenza, nor vaccines, nor health care.
I was amused at the guy who tried to argue that the United Nations is poised to impose “one world government.” I suppose you haven’t noticed, but with the aid of the United Nations, we’re moving in the opposite direction, with increasing speed. About 50 nations got together to found the United Nations in 1945 — there were a few more than 100 nations in the world at the time.
Today? Today there are 192 members of the UN! Our nation recognizes 194 nations (Kosovo and Vatican are not members of the UN, for example). A conservative count puts the total at 195 nations; one count I saw had about 210 nations listed. (What about Puerto Rico, for example — or American Samoa?)
Each of them is sovereign. None of them has ever expressed a desire to give up sovereignty to the UN, nor to any other entity. Each of them tends to jealously guard its sovereignty.
And yet, there on your video, is this guy who claims, contrary to 100 years of history in the 20th century, contrary to all nations’ laws, contrary to the charter of the UN, and contrary to common sense, that there is some grand conspiracy to make a one-world government.
Look at Afghanistan. That country has beaten the great nations of the world repeatedly — Alexander the Great was repulsed, Britain lost twice, and the Soviet Union, and some argue now the U.S. And yet, contrary to history, contrary to sanity, contrary to the way things are going now, this guy claims there is one-world government coming? Has he told the Afghanis? Can we make him be the one to have to do it?
Get a grip Simon.
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Pat, Nick mentioned a kid who died. Where did all your compassion go?
We have people sitting here saying that the virus is no threat, while it kills healthy young kids.
What do you have to say, Pat, to those people who promised us we were wrong, that the virus was no threat to anyone whatsoever?
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When government or media state something it is deemed as truth by the consensus of the general public; when individuals not bound by these organizations refute government and media it is called conspiracy theory. At what point did we give away the power of the truth to government and media? By infiltrating these political establishments and organizations you therefore usurp the tool for brainwashing the masses to the truth that you wish them to see, whether it be truth or not!
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‘All truth goes through three phases. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self evident.’
Arthur Schopenhauer
Or as Ghandi put it
‘First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.’
Mahatma Gandhi
I am very sorry to hear that Nick, but this is exactly what I am talking about.
How about the lives of the 700 000 a year killed by the US medical profession, what about them?
What about the countless US troops whose lives have been destroyed due to the anthrax vaccine?
Then there are the countless cancer victims due to the 1950’s polio vaccine contamination with SV40, where will it end?
Add to this the thousands of American troops who have depleted uranium poisoning because the US militaries use of this substance in there ammunition, and let’s not mention the 100’s of thousands if not millions of Iraqi’s that have to suffer a life of health and birth defects due to this insidious practice.
This is exactly why Baxter must be exposed for this terrible act.
This is not a conspiracy involving just the WHO or just Baxter, it runs far deeper than that.
This is a plan inaugurated by a global elite hell bent on world government and the destruction of national sovereignty of not only the US, but of every nation in the world!
‘We shall have world government whether or not you like it by conquest or consent.’James Warburg, in the senate foreign relations committee February 17th, 1950.
America is quickly becoming the revisitation of Nazi Germany, but in reality just another stepping stone in the totalitarian tiptoe of the global elite.
These people have no sovereignty, they don’t care about you or me or the rest of the herd as they see us; the only thing these megalomaniacs care about is complete and utter global control and they are willing to get it by whatever means necessary – if it takes global genocide to do this then so be it.
As long as we keep burying our heads in the sand and pretending that it’s not there the easier we make it for them.
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I’m not the cretin, pat. you are. You’re the one willing to risk other people’s lives based on a belief without a shred of evidence.
That you call it a cheap shot is only indicative that what I said hurt.
You would have people die for you, Pat.
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Yaayy, Well done! A cheap shot from mister Kelsier. Id tell anyone exactly what I thought of the vaccine anytime mate. Im also very sorry to hear about a 6 year old kid dying from H1N1 but I think your a greasy little rat for even suggesting what you just did. Im sure you feel very deeply about it you cretin!
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A 6 year old boy who was in perfect health before contracting H1N1 died yesterday in Minnesota.
I challenge any of you who think the vaccine is dangerous…especially you Simon…to come to Minnesota and explain your position to his family.
Or are you all chickens— cowards?
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Pat writes:
Evidence has to be proven, tested. Evidence has to be credible. None of that has happened, pat. None of the people supposedly worried about “public safety” have done any of the things necessary to prove their “evidence.” So their concern for “public safety” turns into complete and total lack of concern for public safety.
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Gee, Pat. If I’m wrong, show me where. It’d be best if you used real science performed by real scientists and published in peer-reviewed science journals. But if you have a case, make it.
I’ve not dismissed any study that meets those criteria here.
And please explain why I should call crank science by something other than crank science. My long experience is that crank scientists won’t see the light until something hits them hard int he nose, and even then it’s unlikely.
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A truly ignorant article from a truly ignorant man who proves his ignorance by dismissing any evidence to the contrary of what he claims and then tops it all of by dismissing the people concerned about public safety as “Cranks”!! If you cant attack the evidence, attack the people, its easier!!
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You’re free to make your own choice, Simon, and believe what you want. But what you believe has no credible backing.
But believe it all you want. And I would suggest that you not chastise someone for being insulting when you were yourself.
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Yes — and your error right now is in having accepted them as correct when they are not.
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‘Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance’ Albert Einstein.
I’ll now expect a deluge of insults and bogus mainstream science from your beloved guru Ed Darrel; it’s the only way he knows how to present arguments, by insulting and belittling people – what a lovely guy.
I respect all of your opinions and it is your right to choose.
I see your sources as quacks and you see mine as crackpots so perhaps there is not that much difference between us after all.
Just two sides of the same coin.
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
Aristotle.
Perhaps the ideas that I’m currently entertaining are wrong, for humanities sake I hope they are!
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Whale.to’s front page includes every single crackpot “theory” from Holocaust denial to 9/11 MIHOPism. About the only thing missing is moon-landing hoax theories and Obama-wasn’t-born-in-Hawaii. Credulous to the Nth degree on magic water (excuse me, “homeopathy”) and dowsing, but railing against anything that actually has any evidence in its favor.
Yeah, that’s a bunch of guys I’m going to believe. YOU FAIL.
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Whale.to?! Hahahahahaha.
Mike Adams, Sherri Tenpenny, Joseph Mercola, and whale.to? What, couldn’t you fit any more nutcases into your posts, Simon?
Bottom line: The tripe that all of these people/sites spurt out is pure garbage, and there’s not a trace of good science (if any science at all) in any of it. Only the chronically ignorant would choose to go with these fringe wackos over the educated scientific community.
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‘Don’t argue against flu vaccines by telling us how effectively the natural method of vaccination has protected you from colds, okay? You look like an idiot when you do that, suggesting you really don’t understand viruses, how they are passed, nor how human immunity occurs.’
The only person who looks an idiot here is you.
I have been around people who have flu whilst using these so called ‘natural preventatives’ – which in reality are only a standard of living of which we all should adopt – and have not caught flu!
Flu vaccines have to be administered every year so that they retain their effectiveness (if they have any at all) so the fact that I have been vaccinated in the past cannot be used as and excuse for me not catching the virus.
In reality people with strong, healthy immune systems do not have anything to worry about; it is people who get little to no exercise have poor diets and standards of sanitation that are the ones at risk.
‘If we live our lives soaked in superstition and crank science, we haven’t even a prayer (full irony intended). You’re not advocating for better health. You’re ranting about stuff you don’t know about.’
Unfortunately the facts show that the majority of crank science comes from the conventional medical profession.
A good example of this is psychiatric medicines plugged by psychiatrists that have never been scientifically proven to help conditions, such as depression or ADHD, but are prescribed to patients anyway. These drugs were not originally created to treat these conditions; instead they are designed in a lab and then plugged by salesman as ‘maybe having possible benefits against such conditions’ without having been medically or scientifically proven to do so!
As Dr Sherri Tenpenny says, the modern western medical profession is infected with quackery and you sir are a quack for believing them!
The following article explains the overall ineffectiveness of the Polio vaccine
http://www.whale.to/v/salk6.html
“Polio vaccine, not only did not wipe out polio, as the proponents had claimed, but it actually increased it over 300% in some of the states which had compulsory polio vaccination, and the polio was in the vaccinated.”–E McBean (p23 Vaccination Condemned)
Polio was already on the decrease in the west due to improved living conditions, diet and sanitation – not because of the polio vaccine.
“Today, polio has virtually been wiped out in the United States. But so has it from those European countries that voiced doubts about the vaccine in the 1950s and chose not to institute mandatory inoculations.” It’s a shocking perspective, but as one goes down the list of other vaccines – diptheria, measles, mumps, rubella – every last one’s history bears out the same disturbing correlations. Low rates of vaccine effectiveness. Suspicious upticks in disease incidence after the vaccines’ introduction.”—Martin Goldstein, D.V.M.
If you want evidence and statistics here they are.
“Until the advent of the Salk vaccine in 1955, the only prescription for extreme cases of polio was years of physical therapy and bed rest. Yet even so, in the three decades preceding the vaccine, the death rate from polio declined in the United States by 47 percent and in England by 55 percent. When mass inoculations began in the U.S., accompanied by stirring stories in Life magazine on Salk as the great healer of the century, the incidences of polio increased sharply. In Massachusetts, to take an extreme example, there were 273 cases of polio in the year leading up to August 30, 1954, when the vaccine was introduced statewide. One year later, there were 2,027 cases.
The following article also explains that the polio vaccine is responsible for a cancer causing monkey virus SV40 finding its way into the human genome.
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_13.htm
‘
Polio exists. It has been beaten, where it’s been beaten, only with vaccines. They work. Any statement to the contrary is wholly unsupported by any research, and is crock-pottery, pure and clear.’
Clearly as the above information proves an incorrect statement!
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I said: If you think that chicken pox and shingles would disappear without vaccines, you’re a fool. If you fail to understand that polio can’t be beaten without vaccines, you’re a greater fool.
Simon responded:
There you go with that crackpot stuff again.
Were you using “myth” as the myth school of rhetorical criticism does, you’d be right — i.e., suggesting that it’s a model around which people change their behaviors. I’m sure you mean it in the colloquial, as “a false statement.”
Polio exists. It has been beaten, where it’s been beaten, only with vaccines. They work. Any statement to the contrary is wholly unsupported by any research, and is crock-pottery, pure and clear.
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‘There you go with that crackpot stuff again. If you think that chicken pox and shingles would disappear without vaccines, you’re a fool. If you fail to understand that polio can’t be beaten without vaccines, you’re a greater fool.’
This is a myth as the link I have posted explains.
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In response to your blog
‘GBS is rare, but occurs all the time. We don’t know the cause, and no one has been able to pin any vaccine as a cause of GBS. After several million people were vaccinated, a few fell ill from GBS. No research has ever been able to establish any vaccine as a cause of GBS, however — it may be that those people would have fallen ill with GBS whether they got any vaccine or not.’
The following article shows that the link between GBS and the swine flu vaccine is provable; why else would the US government payout millions in damages to families who contracted the disease, if, as you suggest, there is no provable link.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15075
Excerpt from above article
‘The UK Government plans to inject 13 million British citizens beginning October with virtually untested H1N1 vaccines. The British Neurological Surveillance Unit (BNSU), part of the British Association of Neurologists, has been asked to monitor closely any cases of GBS as the vaccine is rolled out. One senior neurologist told the press off-record, “I would not have the swine flu jab because of the GBS risk.”’
If there is no link between GBS and the vaccine, why has the BNSU been asked to ‘monitor closely any cases of GBS as the vaccine is rolled out’?
Surely if as you say there is no link between GBS and the swine flu vaccine health officials would not be advised to look out for this.
Ed Darrel: ‘After several million people were vaccinated, a few fell ill from GBS. No research has ever been able to establish any vaccine as a cause of GBS …’
Excerpt from above article
‘The US vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when Government scientists confirmed the link with GBS; the US Government then was forced to pay tens of millions of dollars to those affected.’
GBS cases went up by 800% after the 1976 swine flu vaccination program – if that’s not a link then I don’t know what is! But hey, I guess guys like you would see this merely a ‘coincidence’.
‘Another letter with a warning about the swine flu vaccine from the Association of British Neurologists, signed by Dr. Rustam Al-Shahi Salman and Professor Patrick Chinnery, says, “Following the 1976 program of vaccination against swine influenza in the US, a retrospective study found a possible eight-fold increase in the incidence of GBS.” That is 800% increase after vaccination of 40 million Americans was done on a similar “health emergency” basis before abruptly being withdrawn. The 1976 swine flu mass vaccination campaign was abandoned after hundreds of cases of GBS were diagnosed and 25 died.’
Even if the research has not been done to establish a scientific link between GBS and the vaccine, the empirical evidence speaks for itself, bar some massive coincidence. Just because no research has taken place does not mean that there is not a link – it means that no research has been done, which is scandalous considering the circumstantial substantiation.
Excerpt from above article
‘According to the British Dr Tom Jefferson, co-ordinator of the vaccines section of the influential Cochrane Collaboration, an independent British group that reviews drug research, says, “New vaccines never behave in the way you expect them to. It may be that there is a link to GBS, which is certainly not something I would wish on anybody. But it could end up being anything because one of the additives in one of the vaccines is a substance called squalene, and none of the studies we’ve extracted have any research on it at all.” Squalene, a naturally occurring enzyme, could potentially cause.’
Here is a registered British Doctor admitting to the fact that certain ingredients used in vaccines, such as squalene, have had ‘little to no research conducted on them and could have so-far-undiscovered side effects’.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/08/04/Squalene-The-Swine-Flu-Vaccines-Dirty-Little-Secret-Exposed.aspx
According to this article by Dr Mercola ‘oil-based vaccination adjuvants like Squalene have been proved to generate concentrated, unremitting immune responses over long periods of time.’
She also says: ‘I’m not overlooking the tragedy of the loss of even one child to an illness like the H1N1 flu virus. But there can be no argument that unnecessary mass injection of millions of children with a vaccine containing an adjuvant known to cause a host of debilitating autoimmune diseases is a reckless, dangerous plan’.
The facts remain, and I am not slating all vaccines, as I’m sure when administered properly by trustworthy companies vaccines are a good idea. However, what I am calling into question is the need for a vaccine for a disease, such as swine flu, for which the death toll has been minimal.
I know people in England who have had swine flu and all have recovered safely without the need for a vaccine.
Ed Darrel: ‘You’re aware that we annually lose around 30,000 people to the pedestrian, seasonal flu? How many thousands of times greater is the risk of death to flu than death by vaccine?’
The US medical profession are known to kill over 700 000 patients a year from ‘medical accidents’, making them far more deadly than not only flu viruses, but also terrorism.
Normal seasonal influenza kills 250 – 500 000 people a year globally. The US medical profession kill almost double that amount in the United States alone – do the math!
http://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html
I’ll leave you with a link to a website called ‘death by vaccination’ that contains lots of useful information about vaccines, there dangers and what we should be doing about it!
http://deathbyvaccination.com/
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Simon, read Bob Parks’s paper on bogus science and how to spot it. I think that piece touches on all 7 points, at least twice each:
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm
More here:
https://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/encore-post-recognizing-bogus-history-1/
Bogus science, bogus history, bogus politics. Shame on you.
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But I guarantee you, Justin, there is 100% guarantee on something. If you get H1N1 you will get sick. And since you won’t take a medical treatment unless it’s 100% safe then you will get very sick and you will probably die. And there is another 100% guarantee.
If people followed your position then there is a 100% guarantee that H1N1 will turn into a pandemic and hundreds of thousands if not more people will die. So there is a slim…a very slim chance of what you fear happening. But weigh that against the much greater chance of H1N1 killing scores of people without the vaccine and the logical choice is clear. The rational choice is clear.
What’s the pity is that you refuse to be rational or logical. Hell…you can’t even bother to be moral.
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Justin writes:
Justin, you’re a bloody idiot. There is no vaccine for any disease on the planet that has a 100% guarantee rate. So you’re asking for a false standard. That argument of yours would throw out every single vaccine ever developed.
Tell me, do you not ride in a car unless it’s 100% safe? Do you never fly or go on a boat unless it’s 100% safe? Do you live in a house in a neighborhood in a city that is 100% safe? Do you eat food only when it’s 100% safe? Do you have sex when it’s only 100% safe? Do your children go to a school that is 100% safe? Do you take only medicine that is 100% safe? Oh wait…there is no food, no boat, no car, no train, no plane, no neighborhood, no house, no city, no sex that is 100% safe
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September 28, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Gee….where is it said that everything has to have a monetary profit to it?
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Ed, this is just about the most satisfying post I could have read this morning. Thanks for the righteous takedown!
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Here, Justin, at the prior post: https://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/no-who-is-not-taking-over-the-world-with-swine-flu-scares/
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Here’s a really crazy idea: Maybe they think that the benefit of preventing some people from getting H1N1 is worth the cost in the long run. I know that’s a novel idea for you, but it’s not out of the question for those of us who like to have rational thoughts about reality.
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give me 100% proof that the vaccine prevents every person in world from catching swine flu. also give 100% proof that there is a cure for swine flu. Then give me 100% proof that the vaccine is safe with no side effects. If you can do that, I will take the shot. If not, kiss my ass, I wont take it.
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Ed, did it ever come to your mind that the government, WHO, and the CDC are just telling you what you want to hear, and you are just blindly believing everything they say? What if the people you claim are hoaxers are right? What if your family listens to you and gets the shots and they all die? What if the swine flu and the vaccines are the hoax on us? What if this is a plan to bring the population down because of power, control, and greed? Just how much faith do you really want to put in government, WHO, and the CDC? Where is your proof that the vaccines will 100% protect everyone on the planet from getting the swine flu? and where is your proof that there is a 100% cure?
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Where is the proof that the vaccines will prevent everyone who gets the shot from getting Swine flu? or where is the proof that there is a cure? or better yet, if its not going to be mandatory to get the shots in America, then why is the CDC and the WHO and whoever else, are trying to make enough for every person on the planet? Another thing, if the government spent billions on this vaccine program how will they make the money back with profit, unless they make it mandatory for everyone to get the shot?
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wait a sec. who is making the claims that you are saying that people made? I havent seen any sites that make the claims that you posted????? here is what you claim.
This should have silenced some of the cranks, crackpots, crank scientists and hoaxters who had “warned” us that Obama was going to use that opportunity to take over the world and order people to get inoculated against influenza — with some unstated fears that those inoculations would be more dangerous than the flu itself, or turn us all into Volvo-driving, chablis-loving, union-belonging, line-dancing Democrats, or something like that
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I would not trust anyone who described the Daily Mail as a “highly respected national newspaper”. This is a paper that supported Adolf Hitler before the outbreak of World War II, and since then has moved to the right. It has a long history of writing what used to be called yellow journalism.
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I am old enough to remember what life was like before many of the important vaccines were widely available. People born since that time have never met a person in an iron lung because of polio, heard a baby with whooping cough, or seen a child with birth defects caused by his mother’s measles infection during pregnancy. Its no wonder they don’t understand or believe in the benefits of vaccines.
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“Jane Burgermeister’s website notwithstanding, I have my doubts that she could demonstrate mental competence to enlist as a private in the Russian armed forces.”
This is my first introduction to Ms. Burgermeister, and I don’t have the tolerance to do more than scan her website, but it occurs to me that you may be underestimating her. L. Ron reported said that the best way to get rich is to start a religion. These days lots of people seem to be making money on crazy conspiracy theories like 2012 and 911. If I weren’t cursed with integrity I might join them.
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Would you know nitty-gritty if it bit you near your wankery?
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No more time for sounding cocky with masturbatory clever claptrap wankery and verbal diarrhoea, please! … That’s all old hat now we have the internet. WE want the NITTY-GRITTY and nothing but. All the wiffle-waffle hocus-pocus is getting everyone down,sorry to say.
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